Russia Scandal -- Predictions about its impact on the future of the GOP in 2018
@boothe You keep changing the topic. Look at the headline. It’s specifically about Trump/Russia. Not about Clintons, or Dems, or the definition of non-profits.
Stay ON TOPIC. Please discuss Trump/Russia only.
“Of course Russia is involved in US politics.” Seriously?? Pardon me, Boothe, but are you actually excusing direct Russian intervention in U.S. free elections? Are you saying, “Oh well, shit just happens, GOP presidential candidates seek out damaging information about political opponents all the time from foreign powers all the time in return for lifting sanctions on those foreign powers?” If so, that’s the most un-American, unpatriotic thing I’ve ever heard. Let’s go a step further. If you’re okay with selling out the Oval Office, what else you want to sell out to the Russians? The Supreme Court? Would you care if we installed one of Russia’s petro-billionaire’s favorite U.S. politicians there too? Maybe Dana Rohrbacher, who is the Kremlin’s biggest political asset in the U.S.?
Brother, our rule of law has specific charges intended to prevent the intrusion of foreign powers into our political processes. These charges include conspiracy and treason. Can you understand that? In fact, our rule of law has indicted, and executed, criminals for these charges in the past. In 1953, the Rosenbergs were executed for conspiracy to commit espionage for the Soviet Union.
The Rosenbergs are small potatoes compared with what 2018, and 2019, are going to bring.
@jammyjaybird said in Russia Scandal -- Predictions about its impact on the future of the GOP in 2018:
The Rosenbergs are small potatoes
the same was once said of Pantangeli…
@jammyjaybird It is not a matter of me excusing Russian intervention in American politics. You are reading things into what I wrote and attempting to attribute them to me. They should not be meddling in our internal political affairs. And the United States gun-vermin should not be meddling in theirs…or anyone else’s. But the sad fact is the Intelligence Community on both sides of the pond is the real government and meddling is what they do. I don’t like it, I don’t condone it and it is un-Constitutional. But that’s how things actually work and there isn’t a damned thing you or I can do about it. And no special prosecutor or congressional investigation is going to change that either. Harry Truman turned the OSS into the CIA and after that, you could stick a fork in the Constitutional Republic because IT WAS WELL DONE at that point.
Now, you and a lot of other folks think it was a fluke that Trump was elected, especially the entrenched special interests, but he was SELECTED. He would never have made it far enough to gain the presidency without the approval of the international banking community. I predict the indictments will turn up nothing on Trump. He will make Slick Willie look like an amateur. You will have to endure another term of him most likely. You are still living in some 18th century fantasy. The Republic was officially over in 1865. And the Democrats are still pissed at the Republicans for freeing all their slaves, lol. And by the way, Trump has as many or even more Republican enemies as he does Democrats. But it’s all just a show for people like you.
The Republic was officially over in 1865.
Got it. You’re one of those.
@jammyjaybird Once again, you are not the topic police. People on this forum are free to respond to you in any way they choose, unless the mods step in and get involved. Nothing he said was actually “off topic” but it was stuff you didn’t want to have to address because it doesn’t compliment your narrative. You are pushing an agenda, selling a narrative, and you are pushing it really hard.
@jammyjaybird Where is the evidence that a GOP presidential candidate sought out damaging information about political opponents from foreign powers in return for lifting sanctions on those foreign powers? Where is the evidence? And don’t give me your usual “where there is smoke, there is fire” response. Because there is plenty of smoke pointing to the Dems setting up the meeting with the Russian lawyer chick and Don Jr — the fact that she met with Fusion GPS right before that meeting looks like a lot of smoke to me. That golden shower dossier is as phony as a football bat and everybody involved with it has pretty much admitted that. Everything about the FBI and it’s little “insurance policy” in case Trump got elected stinks to high heaven. All of this bullshit is dirty politics, people pushing propaganda to save their jobs and preserve their meal tickets. You just keep believing everything that comes out of one side and discounting everything out of the other side because you have such a personal bias about it, a personal bias that is blinding you to the truth that both of these fake bullshit “sides” are corrupt and both are more than willing to sell out the American people if it means more power and more money for them. The weird thing of it is - Trump himself may turn out to be the least corrupt and least treasonous in that whole bag of treacherous snake fucks in DC. I may well be wrong, but it seems to me, from what I have seen so far, is that both the Dem and the GOP elite establishment types have done everything they possibly can to get rid of Trump, including trying to set him up and spying on him with that bullshit dossier. They really seem like they keep accusing him of the exact things they are guilty of because they are terrified he really is going to clean up the swamp and cut off the gravy filling the trough they have had their little piggy snouts in for years.
@jammyjaybird Yes I am one of “those” people…who has actually read the Constitution (along with the supporting arguments for and against it), understands the historical foundation of the United States and knows the unvarnished truth. The federal government in collusion with some northern states waged war against some of the southern states that had organized into a separate country, which was their right. Lincoln himself acknowledged the right of secession with “Any people whatever have the right to abolish the existing government and form a new one that suits them better.” (Congressional Record, 1847).
When the actors in the federal government declared war against these states, they committed the high crime of treason. Article 3, Section 3 of the Constitution for the United States reads: “Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.”. Do you understand what that means? Plural, “them”, the several states, got it? Lincoln levied war against the several states. That was a high crime, the crime of treason. And he openly admitted that it was over taxation not slavery. He even pragmatically argued that the seceding states would have more of their fugitive slaves returned if they stayed in the union! Slavery didn’t enter into the war effort in earnest until it looked like France and England were going to side with the Confederacy.
It was all over money or more particularly coercive theft. Lincoln was your first Re-thug-lican president overseeing the destruction of entire towns by hammer and bar, burning crops and homes of noncombatants and waging total war against civilians. Yes I am one of “those” people who sees the truth. Part of that truth is the Constitution did not prohibit secession (it could not or it would have never been ratified by the states in that day and age, they had just seceded from Britain) and still does not to this day!
But the federal government won, might makes right in many folks’ minds and in the style of Rome, the U.S. has occupied the several states with its military “transparently” ever since. Answer me this: (A) By what act of congress or presidential decree was “Reconstruction” officially declared over? (B) Which state(s) / U.S. territories do not have a U.S. military presence? The answers are (A) None, and (B) None. The several states, whether you like it or not, are still occupied to this day.
Sometimes things are so simple and straightforward almost everyone misses the truth. The red pill goes way beyond women my friend. I encourage you to come out of the political matrix and see it for what it really is. Not what they want you to believe that it is. Trump is a puppet. Hillary is a puppet. Either of them would do what people you have never seen or heard of want them to do to keep the power, wealth and fame (Trump already had the wealth and fame, all he was missing was wielding political power). In the same way that Lincoln did what northern bankers, industrialists and railroad men wanted him to do. If you will recall he wasn’t elected by a majority either.
If you think any of this is unimportant today and is “Off Topic”, think again. This is where the foundation was laid for the military / industrial oligarchy you live under today. Mr. Trump is just the latest in a long line of figure heads doing their bidding. Of course he’s a criminal; virtually every one of them are at that level. But what you have to understand is that no matter how morally reprehensible you find what he has done and is doing to be, the real issue is “Has he personally done anything that is illegal?” We will soon find out and I strongly suspect you will be grossly disappointed by the outcome.
News this morning (January 3) sees alt-right so-called hero Steve Bannon laying waste to the Trump crime family:
“The three senior guys in the campaign thought it was a good idea to meet with a foreign government inside Trump Tower in the conference room on the 25th floor – with no lawyers. They didn’t have any lawyers…Even if you thought that this was not treasonous, or unpatriotic, or bad shit, and I happen to think it’s all of that, you should have called the FBI immediately.”
He’s not a leftist, nor a centrist. That was Steve fucking Bannon, right wing propagandist extraordinaire, founder of Breitbart. Dude’s up to his eyeballs in this scandal. Why did he turn so hard on Trump? Three possibilities:
- Because he is trying to put distance between himself and the White House as a signal to a certain special counsel that he is willing to cooperate. Note especially the line at the end, “you should have called the FBI immediately.” He sounds like a kid suddenly siding with the teacher after starting a playground fight.
- Because he knows that Trump is going down and can no longer hurt him.
- Because he’s frustrated as hell that his white-nationalist plans were scotched when he got fired.
Or maybe all three of them. Thoughts?
I think you have never believed a word Steve Bannon has ever said before now because you saw him as a Trump supporter. Anything he has said to defend Trump, you would shoot it down and then shit on him for being pro-Trump. Call him Alt-Right, a white supremacist, an alcoholic, just like all the other anti-Trumpers do.
But the very instant Bannon says something that aligns with your obsessive anti-Trump hatred – boom, all of a sudden Bannon is totally trustworthy and believable.
@boothe Lincoln did what he had to do by forcibly preventing secession. Where you might call it the End of the Republic in 1865, I see it more akin to growing pains. Without the assertion of a central government we would have devolved into another Europe; a handful of squabbling fiefdoms waiting to be conquered by a modern superpower.
@bem And now we have become heir to the British empire, which was merely an extension of the Roman empire. The problem with basing your nation on military superiority is there will always be ruthless and ambitious men ready to cash in on that capability. And they will eventually make bad decisions out of greed and a hunger for power that will spread your forces too thin and the empire will collapse…turning what’s left of it into a bunch of “squabbling fiefdoms waiting to be conquered by a modern superpower.” I probably won’t live to see it, but empires (and make no mistake the US is a global empire that makes the Roman empire look like a bunch of pikers) have a definite life cycle. This nation is not immune. Our enemies will come against us. Our population is so fat and sick the military is having a hard time finding recruits. Our infrastructure is in sad shape and a good portion of our manufacturing capability has gone to our enemies. Any pretense of morality and common decency is but a distant memory for much of the population. If this nation will turn from it’s wicked ways and repent, we might be able to turn this mess around, but I’m not holding my breath for that. Fully half the population has gone full collectivist welfare state retard and the other half has gone full flag waving “put boots on the ground, kick some ass” foreign meddling retard. Once they really start to run out of other people’s money (and the fractional banking / fiat currency / income tax Ponzi scheme breaks down) it’s game over. But don’t worry, someone else will come along and try it all over again because they’re smarter than us, see? The one thing we, as a species, seem to learn from history is that we don’t learn a damned thing from history!
@boothe True enough. Inevitable. That’s why I dig this bit of scripture:
“put not your trust in princes and sons of men in whom there is no salvation - when he dies he returns to the Earth, and on that very day his plans perish.”
Holy hell, lots of bombshell revelations in the Fusion GPS dossier that was released today. I’ll sum up. (All quotes from the transcript of the testimony.)
- Fusion GPS concluded early in their investigation that Trump has serious ties to Russian organized crime, including money in his companies from “Kazakhstan, among other places, and that some of it you just couldn’t account for.”
- Fusion sent Steele into Russia with a broad assignment to look into Trump’s dealings in Russia. And what they found was that “it wasn’t a giant secret” that “Donald Trump had a relationship with the Kremlin.” “People were talking about it freely.”
- Even though Fusion sent Steele into Russia to learn more about Trump’s business dealings, what they found was “very different and obviously more alarming, which had to do with . . . a political conspiracy . . . the government of Russia or someone was doing some hacking. . . there were rumblings at that time about whether there had been lot of hacking and there was going to be – political digital espionage was going to be a component of the campaign.”
- And then Simpson dropped a bomb: Steele reported his findings to the FBI because it’s the ethical thing to do. He got debriefed by the FBI; however, he learned in the debriefing that the FBI, in September 2016, had gained a “voluntary” source inside the Trump campaign who is corroborating his own findings of cooperation with a foreign power. (This is not Papadopoulous. It’s someone else.)
- Steele was never paid by the FBI. In fact, none of his work was paid by any US federal intelligence agency.
- Carter Page lost money with the Russians, was really mad about sanctions, and apparently had been an espionage suspect under investigation by the FBI FOR YEARS preceding the election.
- And then the really crazy stuff came out. Simpson was apparently handed Manafort’s contemporaneous notes from the June 9, 2016 Trump Tower meeting with the Russians. In those notes is a reference to a Cypriot holding company to engage in inward investment into Russia. The note references this company as one of the “active sponsors of the RNC.”
What the fuck. A Russian-linked Cypriot holding company is an “active sponsor of the RNC”, according to Trump’s campaign chairman. In fucking writing. There is something so deep and so corrupt here in the GOP that I’m nearly speechless.
These are the facts. As of January 10, 2018.
@jammyjaybird 1. Of course he had ties to the Russian mob. Get real. You think he’d get any business done over there without those ties? That’s like saying he has ties to the mob in NYC or Atlantic City. Anyone with a lick of sense about how things work in the Northeast knows this.
- Same thing with Trump having a “relationship with the Kremlin.” You won’t do any kind of major business in Rah-sha unless you have a relationship with the oligarchs. No shocker there.
- Right. The same “hacking” the myriad intelligence agencies have yet to produce the evidence of. Yet Seth Rich’s body lays moldering in the ground yet un-avenged. The data speeds were too high for a remote “hacker”. It was from a flash drive. Seth’s dead because he crossed the Hildebeast.
- Of course there was a plant. Trump is hated by both the Demoplicans & the Republicrats. His whole administration is shot through with Obama holdovers and hostile neo-cons. There’s probably more than one.
- We knew this last year. That’s old news. Steele was paid (through Fusion GPS) first by hostile Republicrats and then by the DNC / Hildebeast campaign.
- If Carter Page was really in cahoots with the Russians, it’s highly doubtful that he would be suing Huff-Po and Yahoo for defamation. He most likely would be attempting to keep a low profile and or cut a plea deal.
- Here again, you’re dealing with old news, not a revelation. We knew back in July of last year about attorney Natalia Veselnitskaya meeting with Trump Jr. in June 2016. She was working for a Cyprus-based real estate holding company called Prevezon. Denis Katsyv was running it. He’s the son of Pyotr Katsyv, one of Putin’s “closest advisers.” She was allegedly given “unlimited resources” to run a campaign to get the Magnitsky Act repealed, not to interfere in the election. I strongly suspect it was an end run around the existing administration to try to get the Republicrats in on repealing the Magnitsky act, since they knew the Obama camp wouldn’t do it.
Most of your “facts” are from last year. Try again.
@jammyjaybird said in Russia Scandal -- Predictions about its impact on the future of the GOP in 2018:
very different and obviously more alarming, which had to do with . . . a political conspiracy . . . the government of Russia or someone was doing some hacking. . . there were rumblings at that time about whether there had been lot of hacking and there was going to be – political digital espionage was going to be a component of the campaign.”
These are not facts. This is heresay, and barely coherent at that. None of this other stuff has anything to do with the election. Trump had business in Russia, BFD.
@boothe Well at least you’re not arguing with facts. However, you’re acting like all this has been known for years, when in fact this is the first time most of this stuff has been entered into the public record. It’s pretty big news that a reputable source, Simpson, has testified to Congress so openly about all this.
Can I ask: Are you a patriot? In other words, do you believe in the rule of law? I ask because your responses indicate that you don’t seem to really care about the effect this scandal will have on the nation. It appears as though you’re just trying to win imaginary debate points against me.
@bem For a bright guy, you’re pretty dense sometimes. OF COURSE this is all wrapped up in the 2016 election. It’s illegal to seek assistance – in the form of actionable intelligence against a political opponent – from a foreign power. It’s called conspiracy. And if there’s two witnesses in the room, then it’s called treason.
I get it. You just don’t want to process this information. Easier to stick the head in the sand. Well, it’ll take you longer than most to see the hand waving in front of your face, but I imagine you’ll get there eventually. It’ll hit you the day you see Pence getting frogmarched into federal court on national television. (I’m not sure we’ll ever get that visual on the Very Stable Genius, but one can always hope.)
@jammyjaybird Actually Jammy I am probably more of a patriot than you are. Because I believe in the fundamental principles of the founding. I believe all men are Created equal and deserve equal protection under the law. I believe in the right to a trial by jury and having to be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law before we decide whether or not a man has committed a crime. I also believe that to have an actual “crime” there must be an overwhelming body of evidence that one party was injured by another party. I believe all laws should be simple and easily comprehended by the common man.
What I see in modern feral (not a misspelling) government is a lot of political posturing, hearsay, rumors and theatrics. One of the key principles of show business is keep the people talking about you, it doesn’t matter whether what they are saying is good or bad. Trump is a master of this. I think he is a manipulator or persuader if you prefer Scott Adams’ terminology. I think overall he has the scruples of an alley cat, the same as Hillary. But it doesn’t matter how big a scumbag he is, if he has not violated any laws, then he is free to go. A good example is his use of the bankruptcy laws in the past. I find this practice morally reprehensible, but I know from working in the northeast that using bankruptcy to stiff your creditors / investors is done fairly often. A lot of these players do the same thing with contract law to screw their subcontractors, even putting them out of business. I have seen it. Sadly it is legal. This was not the intent of (most of) the framers. But this is what a legislature made up primarily of lawyers has done to us. The fact that I don’t like this does nothing to change the reality of it. But I don’t get all worked up about it, since I know I cannot change it. Why? Because until enough of our fellow countrymen put down their entertainment / listening / tracking devices (circenses) and quit stuffing their faces with junk-food (panem) long enough to notice what’s being done to them, it will never change. And this whole “scandal” is just one more facet of the total entertainment package.
Hillary was accused, initially, by the FBI of ‘gross negligence’ for her private server and email shenanigans with classified information. Comey had that language, which should have resulted in a grand jury investigation, changed to “extremely careless”. Now from my perspective Hillary intentionally flouted federal law on handling classified information (a subject I have some knowledge on, since I have held a government security clearance in the past) so that she could delete potentially incriminating evidence and prevent it from becoming a matter public record. Why else would she do this? And why would the head of the FBI cover for her? Rank has its privileges, the rule of law be damned!
I don’t condone any of this behavior. I don’t condone much of what the federal government has become. My outlook on government is very simple and follows this quote attributed to George Washington (although there is really no evidence he ever said it): “Government is not reason, it is not eloquence — it is force. Like fire it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action.” Due to individual human failings, we arguably “need” government, but only in very limited doses. A good comparision is the Las Vegas massacre vs. 20th century democide. A lone gunman (if you believe the official story) was supposedly able to wound 520 people and kill 59 more. Pretty horrific right? A “wake up call” that only government officials should be allowed access to small arms like he had, right? Never mind that governments, including the U.S, in the 20th century alone committed democide against 200 million of their own people, most of whom were unarmed and defenseless! No lone nut with a gun can even begin to accomplish the level of carnage and destruction that government has historically done (hence my frequent use of the term “gun-vermin”)!
Since evil and ambitious people flock to government jobs all too often, government necessarily needs to be very limited in size. The federal government has grown, or more accurately metastasized into a monster that the founders would be appalled by. And corruption has grown right along with it. You buy into the left / right false dichotomy aimed at the sportsball crowd. I do not. If you think that by seeing through the smoke I am less of a patriot than you, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
This nation was founded on fundamental principles of limited government, designed to do as little of the people’s business with as little of our money as possible. It was designed to allow the maximum amount of individual liberty while securing our lives and property. A legitimate function of government is to settle disputes in contract law and “regulate” interstate commerce. Another is to apprehend, investigate and try alleged criminals and punish them if found guilty. It is also supposed to provide for a common defense, but not establish a standing army. The Constitution was intended as a limiting document, not a permissive document. Our “leadership” has strayed so far from the founders’ intent that the U.S. government would scarcely be recognizable to them and has developed all of the characteristics of an emerging dictatorship and global empire (which it clearly is).
So in answer to your question if I believe in the rule of law: Yes, absolutely! I believe in the rule of just law, applied equally to everyone. No special privileges for politicians, FBI agents, police officers or anyone. No qualified immunity. I also believe that if you have harmed no one, you have committed no crime. No harm no foul. Explain to me again why we put people in cages for smoking a weed that grows wild all over the globe? Oh yes. That’s right. To protect the interests of the pharmaceuticals industry, the alcohol industry, prison industrial complex and to keep a thriving black market going to empower government in their ludicrous “war on drugs” among other things. Some are apparently more equal than the rest of us. That has a far bigger impact on the 2.266 million Americans currently sitting in prison and the rest of us who have to pay for them to rot there, than this political Kabuki theatre you seem so enamored with. I hate to break it to you, but the “effect of this scandal” will have little to no impact on the nation.
Most of your “facts” have been public knowledge at least since last year. A simple Internet search was all I needed to prove this. As far as debate points go, I’m not keeping score. All I’m interested in is ensuring that you understand that my property is my own and you don’t have a right to it. Further that this nation was founded on the concept of government by the consent of the governed and the only things that you or I can delegate to government are those things that are ours by right. Conversely I don’t have the right to kick in your door, shoot your dog and put you in a cage because you are ingesting a substance I don’t approve of. No more than I have a right to put a muzzle on you or handcuff you because you say or write things I disagree with. Or the right to turn on your phone or PC microphone and camera to spy on you. Or just to read your emails and listen to your phone conversations. And I certainly don’t have the right to get together with a bunch of my acquaintances and run roughshod over my neighbors at gunpoint, because they have oil or lithium buried under their backyard. So I cannot delegate authority to government to do these things and neither can you. But these all are things that both sides the false dichotomy we call a “two party system” openly approve of. Never mind that these things are un-Constitutional, which means illegal, as well as a clear violation of our Creator endowed rights. Where’s your outcry over all that? Instead, the PTB have you focusing on matters of little significance while they screw you, me and rest of us out of our birthright.