Russia Scandal -- Predictions about its impact on the future of the GOP in 2018

  • @bem And now we have become heir to the British empire, which was merely an extension of the Roman empire. The problem with basing your nation on military superiority is there will always be ruthless and ambitious men ready to cash in on that capability. And they will eventually make bad decisions out of greed and a hunger for power that will spread your forces too thin and the empire will collapse…turning what’s left of it into a bunch of “squabbling fiefdoms waiting to be conquered by a modern superpower.” I probably won’t live to see it, but empires (and make no mistake the US is a global empire that makes the Roman empire look like a bunch of pikers) have a definite life cycle. This nation is not immune. Our enemies will come against us. Our population is so fat and sick the military is having a hard time finding recruits. Our infrastructure is in sad shape and a good portion of our manufacturing capability has gone to our enemies. Any pretense of morality and common decency is but a distant memory for much of the population. If this nation will turn from it’s wicked ways and repent, we might be able to turn this mess around, but I’m not holding my breath for that. Fully half the population has gone full collectivist welfare state retard and the other half has gone full flag waving “put boots on the ground, kick some ass” foreign meddling retard. Once they really start to run out of other people’s money (and the fractional banking / fiat currency / income tax Ponzi scheme breaks down) it’s game over. But don’t worry, someone else will come along and try it all over again because they’re smarter than us, see? The one thing we, as a species, seem to learn from history is that we don’t learn a damned thing from history!

  • @boothe True enough. Inevitable. That’s why I dig this bit of scripture:
    “put not your trust in princes and sons of men in whom there is no salvation - when he dies he returns to the Earth, and on that very day his plans perish.”

  • Holy hell, lots of bombshell revelations in the Fusion GPS dossier that was released today. I’ll sum up. (All quotes from the transcript of the testimony.)

    1. Fusion GPS concluded early in their investigation that Trump has serious ties to Russian organized crime, including money in his companies from “Kazakhstan, among other places, and that some of it you just couldn’t account for.”
    2. Fusion sent Steele into Russia with a broad assignment to look into Trump’s dealings in Russia. And what they found was that “it wasn’t a giant secret” that “Donald Trump had a relationship with the Kremlin.” “People were talking about it freely.”
    3. Even though Fusion sent Steele into Russia to learn more about Trump’s business dealings, what they found was “very different and obviously more alarming, which had to do with . . . a political conspiracy . . . the government of Russia or someone was doing some hacking. . . there were rumblings at that time about whether there had been lot of hacking and there was going to be – political digital espionage was going to be a component of the campaign.”
    4. And then Simpson dropped a bomb: Steele reported his findings to the FBI because it’s the ethical thing to do. He got debriefed by the FBI; however, he learned in the debriefing that the FBI, in September 2016, had gained a “voluntary” source inside the Trump campaign who is corroborating his own findings of cooperation with a foreign power. (This is not Papadopoulous. It’s someone else.)
    5. Steele was never paid by the FBI. In fact, none of his work was paid by any US federal intelligence agency.
    6. Carter Page lost money with the Russians, was really mad about sanctions, and apparently had been an espionage suspect under investigation by the FBI FOR YEARS preceding the election.
    7. And then the really crazy stuff came out. Simpson was apparently handed Manafort’s contemporaneous notes from the June 9, 2016 Trump Tower meeting with the Russians. In those notes is a reference to a Cypriot holding company to engage in inward investment into Russia. The note references this company as one of the “active sponsors of the RNC.”

    What the fuck. A Russian-linked Cypriot holding company is an “active sponsor of the RNC”, according to Trump’s campaign chairman. In fucking writing. There is something so deep and so corrupt here in the GOP that I’m nearly speechless.

    These are the facts. As of January 10, 2018.

  • @jammyjaybird 1. Of course he had ties to the Russian mob. Get real. You think he’d get any business done over there without those ties? That’s like saying he has ties to the mob in NYC or Atlantic City. Anyone with a lick of sense about how things work in the Northeast knows this.

    1. Same thing with Trump having a “relationship with the Kremlin.” You won’t do any kind of major business in Rah-sha unless you have a relationship with the oligarchs. No shocker there.
    2. Right. The same “hacking” the myriad intelligence agencies have yet to produce the evidence of. Yet Seth Rich’s body lays moldering in the ground yet un-avenged. The data speeds were too high for a remote “hacker”. It was from a flash drive. Seth’s dead because he crossed the Hildebeast.
    3. Of course there was a plant. Trump is hated by both the Demoplicans & the Republicrats. His whole administration is shot through with Obama holdovers and hostile neo-cons. There’s probably more than one.
    4. We knew this last year. That’s old news. Steele was paid (through Fusion GPS) first by hostile Republicrats and then by the DNC / Hildebeast campaign.
    5. If Carter Page was really in cahoots with the Russians, it’s highly doubtful that he would be suing Huff-Po and Yahoo for defamation. He most likely would be attempting to keep a low profile and or cut a plea deal.
    6. Here again, you’re dealing with old news, not a revelation. We knew back in July of last year about attorney Natalia Veselnitskaya meeting with Trump Jr. in June 2016. She was working for a Cyprus-based real estate holding company called Prevezon. Denis Katsyv was running it. He’s the son of Pyotr Katsyv, one of Putin’s “closest advisers.” She was allegedly given “unlimited resources” to run a campaign to get the Magnitsky Act repealed, not to interfere in the election. I strongly suspect it was an end run around the existing administration to try to get the Republicrats in on repealing the Magnitsky act, since they knew the Obama camp wouldn’t do it.

    Most of your “facts” are from last year. Try again.

  • @jammyjaybird said in Russia Scandal -- Predictions about its impact on the future of the GOP in 2018:

    very different and obviously more alarming, which had to do with . . . a political conspiracy . . . the government of Russia or someone was doing some hacking. . . there were rumblings at that time about whether there had been lot of hacking and there was going to be – political digital espionage was going to be a component of the campaign.”

    These are not facts. This is heresay, and barely coherent at that. None of this other stuff has anything to do with the election. Trump had business in Russia, BFD.

  • @boothe Well at least you’re not arguing with facts. However, you’re acting like all this has been known for years, when in fact this is the first time most of this stuff has been entered into the public record. It’s pretty big news that a reputable source, Simpson, has testified to Congress so openly about all this.

    Can I ask: Are you a patriot? In other words, do you believe in the rule of law? I ask because your responses indicate that you don’t seem to really care about the effect this scandal will have on the nation. It appears as though you’re just trying to win imaginary debate points against me.

  • @bem For a bright guy, you’re pretty dense sometimes. OF COURSE this is all wrapped up in the 2016 election. It’s illegal to seek assistance – in the form of actionable intelligence against a political opponent – from a foreign power. It’s called conspiracy. And if there’s two witnesses in the room, then it’s called treason.

    I get it. You just don’t want to process this information. Easier to stick the head in the sand. Well, it’ll take you longer than most to see the hand waving in front of your face, but I imagine you’ll get there eventually. It’ll hit you the day you see Pence getting frogmarched into federal court on national television. (I’m not sure we’ll ever get that visual on the Very Stable Genius, but one can always hope.)

  • @jammyjaybird Actually Jammy I am probably more of a patriot than you are. Because I believe in the fundamental principles of the founding. I believe all men are Created equal and deserve equal protection under the law. I believe in the right to a trial by jury and having to be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law before we decide whether or not a man has committed a crime. I also believe that to have an actual “crime” there must be an overwhelming body of evidence that one party was injured by another party. I believe all laws should be simple and easily comprehended by the common man.

    What I see in modern feral (not a misspelling) government is a lot of political posturing, hearsay, rumors and theatrics. One of the key principles of show business is keep the people talking about you, it doesn’t matter whether what they are saying is good or bad. Trump is a master of this. I think he is a manipulator or persuader if you prefer Scott Adams’ terminology. I think overall he has the scruples of an alley cat, the same as Hillary. But it doesn’t matter how big a scumbag he is, if he has not violated any laws, then he is free to go. A good example is his use of the bankruptcy laws in the past. I find this practice morally reprehensible, but I know from working in the northeast that using bankruptcy to stiff your creditors / investors is done fairly often. A lot of these players do the same thing with contract law to screw their subcontractors, even putting them out of business. I have seen it. Sadly it is legal. This was not the intent of (most of) the framers. But this is what a legislature made up primarily of lawyers has done to us. The fact that I don’t like this does nothing to change the reality of it. But I don’t get all worked up about it, since I know I cannot change it. Why? Because until enough of our fellow countrymen put down their entertainment / listening / tracking devices (circenses) and quit stuffing their faces with junk-food (panem) long enough to notice what’s being done to them, it will never change. And this whole “scandal” is just one more facet of the total entertainment package.

    Hillary was accused, initially, by the FBI of ‘gross negligence’ for her private server and email shenanigans with classified information. Comey had that language, which should have resulted in a grand jury investigation, changed to “extremely careless”. Now from my perspective Hillary intentionally flouted federal law on handling classified information (a subject I have some knowledge on, since I have held a government security clearance in the past) so that she could delete potentially incriminating evidence and prevent it from becoming a matter public record. Why else would she do this? And why would the head of the FBI cover for her? Rank has its privileges, the rule of law be damned!

    I don’t condone any of this behavior. I don’t condone much of what the federal government has become. My outlook on government is very simple and follows this quote attributed to George Washington (although there is really no evidence he ever said it): “Government is not reason, it is not eloquence — it is force. Like fire it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action.” Due to individual human failings, we arguably “need” government, but only in very limited doses. A good comparision is the Las Vegas massacre vs. 20th century democide. A lone gunman (if you believe the official story) was supposedly able to wound 520 people and kill 59 more. Pretty horrific right? A “wake up call” that only government officials should be allowed access to small arms like he had, right? Never mind that governments, including the U.S, in the 20th century alone committed democide against 200 million of their own people, most of whom were unarmed and defenseless! No lone nut with a gun can even begin to accomplish the level of carnage and destruction that government has historically done (hence my frequent use of the term “gun-vermin”)!

    Since evil and ambitious people flock to government jobs all too often, government necessarily needs to be very limited in size. The federal government has grown, or more accurately metastasized into a monster that the founders would be appalled by. And corruption has grown right along with it. You buy into the left / right false dichotomy aimed at the sportsball crowd. I do not. If you think that by seeing through the smoke I am less of a patriot than you, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

    This nation was founded on fundamental principles of limited government, designed to do as little of the people’s business with as little of our money as possible. It was designed to allow the maximum amount of individual liberty while securing our lives and property. A legitimate function of government is to settle disputes in contract law and “regulate” interstate commerce. Another is to apprehend, investigate and try alleged criminals and punish them if found guilty. It is also supposed to provide for a common defense, but not establish a standing army. The Constitution was intended as a limiting document, not a permissive document. Our “leadership” has strayed so far from the founders’ intent that the U.S. government would scarcely be recognizable to them and has developed all of the characteristics of an emerging dictatorship and global empire (which it clearly is).

    So in answer to your question if I believe in the rule of law: Yes, absolutely! I believe in the rule of just law, applied equally to everyone. No special privileges for politicians, FBI agents, police officers or anyone. No qualified immunity. I also believe that if you have harmed no one, you have committed no crime. No harm no foul. Explain to me again why we put people in cages for smoking a weed that grows wild all over the globe? Oh yes. That’s right. To protect the interests of the pharmaceuticals industry, the alcohol industry, prison industrial complex and to keep a thriving black market going to empower government in their ludicrous “war on drugs” among other things. Some are apparently more equal than the rest of us. That has a far bigger impact on the 2.266 million Americans currently sitting in prison and the rest of us who have to pay for them to rot there, than this political Kabuki theatre you seem so enamored with. I hate to break it to you, but the “effect of this scandal” will have little to no impact on the nation.

    Most of your “facts” have been public knowledge at least since last year. A simple Internet search was all I needed to prove this. As far as debate points go, I’m not keeping score. All I’m interested in is ensuring that you understand that my property is my own and you don’t have a right to it. Further that this nation was founded on the concept of government by the consent of the governed and the only things that you or I can delegate to government are those things that are ours by right. Conversely I don’t have the right to kick in your door, shoot your dog and put you in a cage because you are ingesting a substance I don’t approve of. No more than I have a right to put a muzzle on you or handcuff you because you say or write things I disagree with. Or the right to turn on your phone or PC microphone and camera to spy on you. Or just to read your emails and listen to your phone conversations. And I certainly don’t have the right to get together with a bunch of my acquaintances and run roughshod over my neighbors at gunpoint, because they have oil or lithium buried under their backyard. So I cannot delegate authority to government to do these things and neither can you. But these all are things that both sides the false dichotomy we call a “two party system” openly approve of. Never mind that these things are un-Constitutional, which means illegal, as well as a clear violation of our Creator endowed rights. Where’s your outcry over all that? Instead, the PTB have you focusing on matters of little significance while they screw you, me and rest of us out of our birthright.

  • @jammyjaybird Seriously? “The day you see Pence getting frogmarched into federal court on national television”? Well maybe so, but… This is the guy that will not dine alone with any woman other than his wife (with much derision from the feminists, mainly because they can’t ever accuse him of a damned thing). I think you will find that his meticulousness in staying out of compromising situations and remaining morally upright carries over into all other aspects of his life. They may manage to take down just about everyone else in the Trump administration (although I doubt it), but Pence in all likelihood will remain standing.

  • This entire thread is turning into a master course on how to argue opinion as if it is fact. Or how to masturbate your own political clitoris.

  • @ainigmaris-thales It’s a political thread FFS! What would you expect it to turn into?

  • @boothe Mueller team already has Pence. As head of Trump’s transition team, Pence knew everything about Flynn’s treason and still allowed him to assume a position as national security advisor. There’s probably more, but that’s all Mueller’s team needs.

    Also, please stop writing long off-topic screeds. Political philosophy is interesting, but I’d like to keep things squarely fixed on Trump/Russia. Go start your own thread if you want to rant.

  • @jammyjaybird said in Russia Scandal -- Predictions about its impact on the future of the GOP in 2018:

    Also, please stop writing long off-topic screeds. Political philosophy is interesting, but I’d like to keep things squarely fixed on Trump/Russia. Go start your own thread if you want to rant.

    Let me translate that for everyone:

    This thread is for Jammy to tell all of you stupid, naive fools about all the evil and treasonous things Trump and his administration have done and are doing. He knows it all to be true because facts. If you disagree with him, you are stupid and wrong. If you point out things that don’t conform to his “facts” then you are “off-topic” and need to shut up.

    Jammy 3:16 - Read and believe, bitches, because Jammy said so!

  • @ainigmaris-thales Funny how he questions my patriotism and asks me to explain myself, which I do (admittedly at length, I didn’t want to leave any of my position to his fertile imagination) and now it becomes an “off-topic screed[s]”. Hit a nerve I did. LOL!

  • @boothe You’re not having a political discussion with a reasonable person willing to evaluate alternative concepts or different facts and reconsider their position. You are trying to reason with a quasi-religious zealot who is deeply and emotionally connected to his beliefs, and any threat to those beliefs is a threat to his identity, to his entire worldview… which is really a waste of your time and energy. He simply cannot “change his mind” or even consider the possibility that he is wrong – he can’t see anything other than the construct he has created because it isn’t based on reason or logic, its based on emotion and need.

  • @ainigmaris-thales At this point good sir, I am afraid you are right. But he can’t say I didn’t fully elucidate my position.

  • @boothe lol. Aingmaris is a sociopath, and it comes out loud and clear on the interwebz, so it’s best just to ignore him.

    I asked you about your patriotism in the context of Trump/Russia. What you gave was essentially a dissertation on political philosophy that had almost nothing to do w Trump/Russia. It was too long, and it didn’t answer the question directly. Guaranteed nobody’s reading a 2000 word response, BTW.

    FYI yes I understand how the dual-party thing has metastasized into a single monster party. I actually worked in the heart of the politics/media machine, many years ago, on the East Coast, and left feeling like I didn’t want to venture near the borg again.

    But in the context of Trump/Russia, that’s an incorrect analysis. This is actually a partisan scandal. This scandal shows that ONE of our parties – the GOP – has essentially turned into a Russian money-laundering operation. Not both parties, my friend; just one. Can you understand that? So do me a favor and stop trying to play the false equivalence game. The Dems are corrupt in their own way but they’ve got no dog in this hunt. I sense that you’ve often voted GOP in the past and are perhaps smart enough to be embarrassed. Others will probably come to feel the same way. Time will tell.

    I’ll post here again with more facts as they become available.

  • @jammyjaybird Actually, I’m not a fan of the GOP and vote Constitution Party whenever I can (i.e. when there’s a candidate running). But…I will vote for the pro-gun candidate every time, so in the past I have voted both Demoplican and Republicrat. If there’s anything I’m embarrassed about, it’s voting at all since that shows support for the system and lends them credibility. I know my vote has some insignificant impact at the local level. But at the national level voting and writing to your representatives is essentially meaningless nowadays. If doing these things would really change anything, they would most likely be illegal.

    And you are wrong about it being one sided. You studiously ignore pay for play and the Uranium One deal. That amounts to treason by your standards as well. But since it appears to be “your team” that did that shit, it’s a non-issue for you.

    You keep going on about Trump / Russia like it’s a proven thing complete with convictions, etc. It’s not and it’s not likely to be. Have you actually read Simpson’s testimony or just what HuffPo told you about it? Simpson has not only admitted that while Steele was providing the (Clinton campaign funded) “dossier” to the FBI and encouraging them to investigate Trump (with Simpson’s knowledge), he was trying to cast doubt on the Clinton email investigation. Then all of sudden Chris (Steele) doesn’t know what’s going on inside the FBI (like he should?) and breaks contact with them? The whole thing stinks of partisan politics dude!

    So, if there’s anything provable as crime on either side of it, I think people should go to prison. And I don’t mean the Watergate era “prison” down in Florida with the cottages and tennis courts either! But they won’t. They never do: RHIP. A few minor players may get thrown under the bus like G. Gordon Liddy did. That will be that and when they get out they too can have their own radio talk show, lol. Watch and see.

    BTW, what are your qualifications for psychoanalyzing Thales over the Internet? Generally to analyze someone with any degree of credibility (not that I find much in psychology / psychiatry particularly credible) you have to interview the individual personally and over a fairly lengthy period of time. Does it occur to you that he’s not a sociopath at all? That maybe he’s just trolling the living shit out of you?

    And maybe no one is reading a 2000 word response (it was only 1431 words BTW), but either you did or you have no idea what I stand for and you’re only guessing at my political position, level of patriotism and what that is based on.

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