Star Wars

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    @jumpnjive Im not a huge LoR fan but I haven’t even seen that hobbit movie. The ONLY good mainstream movie I’ve seen in recent memory was Jurassic World.

  • @jnyx Chris Pratt seems like a pretty cool dude. I liked him in the Magnificent 7 remake.

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    @jumpnjive Dont know him other than that movie, but it was nice. No feminism (the chick kinda but she ultimately submits to Pratt’s character), no “evil whitey” just dinosaurs fucking shit up and the main character fighting them.

  • I have posted a post.

  • I’ve posted this before, but I will post it again for posterity. Disney has taken the quintessential Hero With a Thousand Faces elements of the original SW trilogy, and is destroying it piece by piece, remaking a classic story of traditional, natural heroism and remaking it as a SJW fantasy.

    Luke is the traditional “squire who goes on a quest to slay the dragon and becomes a knight”. This is a tale as old as story-telling itself. It’s a young man facing his rite of passage, taking on challenges and becoming a man – traditional elements of masculinity. It is a classic tale of good versus evil. Along the way, he is mentored by an older man – another classic element of story-telling and masculinity – the new generation taking wisdom from their elders.

    Han Solo is the “rogue with a heart of gold” – another classic archetype that has been a part of story-telling for generations. He is also a classical example of masculinity and male virility… A man who lives outside the rules of society, who makes his own way, but it nevertheless a good guy.

    The squire and the rogue pull together a band of unlikely heroes that form a bond of loyalty and friendship that sacrifice for each other, and work together to achieve an otherwise impossible goal. Good versus evil, they travel a long distance on their quest, overcome many obstacles, and eventually slay the great dragon.

    The “new” SW, as re-imagined by Disney, destroys all of those archetypes. Instead of a band of heroes with complimentary skills and assorted personality, there is only one hero – the “she-ro” Rey. She is (untrained) a better Jedi than Luke – in other words, she doesn’t need to go on a quest or face obstacles to become better, and become a knight. She is naturally a knight and just has to “believe” in herself to become unbeatable. She is also a better pilot than Han Solo, a better mechanic than Chewbacca – she can instinctively do everything better than the original characters.

    She faces no external obstacles. The only hardship she faces is struggling with her own emotions and internal bullshit. She has no mentor, no one from the previous generation to pass down the learned wisdom of her society like Obi Wan.

    The other characters are solely there to add to the She-ro’s story. The black stormtrooper has no skills, adds nothing to the progression of the story. He is probably supposed to add some element of comic relief, but there is no bonding, no working together, he is just there to make her look better and facilitate the plot. Same with the pilot guy. He’s just there to move the plot along, and to give the slash fanfic people a boyfriend for the black stormtrooper.

    Original SW had a real, legitimately evil, bad guy: Darth Vader. His story arc changes through the 3 movies, but only because a darker, more nefarious evil is revealed to be behind him. In A Hew Hope, he is solely the evil bad guy, the foil to our heroes.

    New SW has an angst-ridden “bad guy” who we are supposed to sympathize with. He isn’t evil, he’s just misunderstood, and he has emotional problems because he had shitty parents.

    The quintessential scene in The Force Awakens is the angst-ridden SJW son killing his father, the classic symbol of male heroism and masculinity. Listen to the music and how the scene is set up – it is not Darth Vader striking down Obi Wan. It is meant to stoke sympathy and make the audience identify with the bad guy.

    I haven’t seen the new movie yet, but the fact that Luke dies and Leia survives makes me believe that the destruction of the old archetypes continues, and they are replaced by new SJW themes and bullshit.

  • @jnyx I remember reading those books when they came out. I always loved dinos as a kid so it was like heaven to imagine them alive again

  • @ainigmaris-thales Say what you want about George Lucas, but at least he appreciated the “Hero’s Journey”. Even the prequels show this, like a mirror image of what Like goes through, except Anakin fails the tests where Luke passes.

    In 8, they portray Luke as a whiny hermit who cedes leadership to an untrained girl who thinks she already knows it all. It goes beyond all credibility. They’ll probably have Rey and Kylo shack up and produce offspring or make Rey be able to reproduce asexually since she’ll probably be a lesbo

  • @jumpnjive I disagree about the prequels. Although he tried to create this “echo” or reverse allegory of something between Luke’s journey in the original trilogy with Anakin’s journey in the prequels, he failed miserably. There were huge portions of actual, structural story-telling that were missing in the prequel movies. The first movie doesn’t have a protagonist or an antagonist, for fuck’s sake. You can’t tell a story if you don’t have the basics like a story arc. So he might have tried to echo the same elements, but he was unable to ever actually put it together.

    Additionally, when your bad guy’s plan – if executed – would lead to the exact opposite of what he was trying to do, and the only reason he succeeds in his overall plan is because the good guys foil his plans, then he stops being an evil mastermind and turns into a weirdo old dude who is basically just lucky.

  • @ainigmaris-thales I saw Qui-Gonn and Maul as the -tagonists in Ep1. I agree that the “episodes” don’t tell the full story, although the book version of Ep3 does a fair job of explaining Anakin’s mindset during all of this, but there were quite a few books and the especially the Dark Horse “Clone Wars” graphic novels that helped flesh out what caused Anakin to fall. Reading those fills in most of the gaps, if not all of them.

  • @jumpnjive The -tagonists have to be the subject of the movie. Maul was a henchman, at best, and did not feature in most of the movie. It’s hard to say that Qui-Gonn or Obi Wan were the protagonists because the story very clearly shifts to Anakin about midway through the movie. But none of them (Qui-Gonn, Obi Wan, or Anakin) are the main focus through the entire movie, the focus shifts to each of them at different points in the movie. But even more fatal to them being -tagonists is that none of them go through any progression as part of the central plot. They are game pieces moving through lots of props and special effect scenes. They are put up on screen as if they are supposed to be protagonists, but from a story-telling point of view, none of them fill that role.

  • @ainigmaris-thales Almost like Lucas had a hard time deciding which one to focus on. 2 & 3 suffered from this as well. It’s allegedly Anakin’s story but Obi-Wan takes a lot of time. Don’t get me wrong, Obi-Wan is probably my favorite character but Lucas didn’t lend the emotional weight to the relationship b/w the two to give the final act the impetus it needed. I don’t know if he was relying on the outside books to fill in the gaps, but I think the gaps were filled by others as more effect rather than design.

    I do think Dark Horse comics did a good job of giving “life” to the prequel period. I also enjoyed the Republic Commando series.

  • @ainigmaris-thales Surprising lucid analysis. For a homo.

  • @jumpnjive I am in that camp that thinks Jar Jar was intended to be the antagonist, but he was so hated that they had to ditch the idea and come up with Count Dooku in ep 2. Had they made a simple but obvious tell at the end of ep 1, the series would have been much better.

  • If you watch the “making of” documentary, it becomes really clear what the issue was… they never actually wrote a real story. They started filming without a script, and then just began cobbling together concepts as they went along. Lucas had a vague idea that he wanted to do this “echo” or reverberation of the Luke journey with Anakin, and that he wanted to tell the story of Palpatine’s rise to Emperor with a lot of political intrigue, but he didn’t have three distinct movies plotted out, and he didn’t really have enough material for three movies.

    He also had a lot of special effects he wanted to use and little scenes he wanted to shoot, but he didn’t feel like he had weave that stuff into an established plot, he just felt like he could weave the plot around these different shots or effects he wanted to do.

    That’s why there are so many bits and pieces of different things kind of thrown together. It was never three distinct movies with three distinct but interrelated plots. It was always one story that he broke up into three movies and peppered with all this other crap to move it along.


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    If anyone wishes to watch the movie without sending Disney a dime, you can do that here: wars the last jedi/0/99/200

  • @ainigmaris-thales Indeed. The “writing” was obviously an afterthought. But Lucas was always liked that - he imagines scenes in his head, then music, then tries to string them together.

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    @jnyx They did that to my beloved Mass Effect and Bioshock franchises.

  • @bem so…he thinks like a girl

  • @jim-johnson Ah. The old “the-guy-who-is-comic-relief-is -actually-the-bad-guy” routine. I see how that could have worked. Have him drop the whole goofy shtick and pull out a red lightsaber…

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