• I’m calling you out. Let’s go.

  • @ainigmaris-thales Socialism, on it’s most fundamental level, is thievery. Say your ship crashed on a tropical island with 10 or so people. Would it be right to take someone else’s stuff? Of course not. Since you do not have that moral authority yourself, can you ethically give that authority to someone else? All socialism is, is delegating thievery to someone else.

  • @jim-johnson You know who else were socialists? The Nazis.

  • @ainigmaris-thales Yes they were. The National Socialist German Workers Party. The irony is the Communists and the Anti-Fa were and yet remain in the same camp. It’s one band of Orcs fighting other Orcs.

  • @jim-johnson Insurance, in all its forms, is socialism at its purest. Do you have auto, life, fire, and health insurance policies?

    Society has discovered that the most equitable way to deal with individual risk is to share that risk.

  • @jammyjaybird Wrong. Insurance is capitalism, not socialism. The individual pays an insurer to take the risk from him in exchange for money (premium). The insurer is on the hook for the risk, not the community or the society. The insurer wants as large a pool of insureds as possible, to minimize its own risk and maximize its profits. Conceptually, this is thought of as “pooling” or “sharing” risk, but at the end of the day, the insurance company is responsible for paying out the claim.

    There are some self-insurance pools out there that act a little closer to a “shared risk” model, where each member agrees to cover a proportionate share of the group’s overall risk on the theory that each member will have only to pay out a smaller share of any loss they they individually suffer. But, it seriously stretches credulity to call that “socialism.” Especially since insurance is voluntary, and socialism is not.

    The only aspect of certain forms of insurance that can be considered “socialist” are those that are required by law… like Obamacare. And, ultimately, Obamacare is suffering from the same flaws that have undone socialism in practice pretty much every time it has been tried.

  • @ainigmaris-thales It always amazes me the lengths to which people like yourself, and GoJ, will go to deny the fact that socialism is a part and parcel of the American fabric. Keep in mind I’m not a socialist, I’m just a realist. All I’m saying is that it’s part of our history, part of our current society, and sometimes it works really well. A purely capitalist society would be untenable:

    911 caller: "My house is on fire!"
    911 response: “Press 1 for Visa, press 2 for Mastercard, press 3 for all other credit card options, press 9 to speak to customer service…”

  • @jammyjaybird You are just being disingenuous, as usual. You are sweeping so many things under the banner of “socialism” that are not socialism. If all of the members of a church decide to get together and donate goods to help out someone whose house has burned down, that’s not socialism or communism, its just people being good neighbors and helping each other out. People paying taxes to support a police force or fire department to benefit their community is not socialism. Socialism is not “anything that isn’t 100% open and free market capitalism.”

  • @jammyjaybird only a matter of time!

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  • @ainigmaris-thales It becomes socialism when the natural, individual, ELECTIVE instinct to help or share becomes legislated and mandated.

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    @bem I think that would fall more under communism at that point, but I digress.

  • @jak collectivism by any other name…‘communism’, 'socialism, ‘statism’…that’s all just branding.

  • @jak In its purest form, “socialism” is a society which organizes itself such that all property, capital and the means of production and distribution are owned by the community as a whole. But there are many varieties of “socialism” and of course, pro-socialists love to classify anything with even a touch of community to it as socialist, especially if it is something good (because so much of true socialism is bad). In Marxist theory, however, socialism is just a transitional phase that a society goes through on its way to inevitable communism.

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    @ainigmaris-thales Seems like socialism is a lot like women. They’ll claim all the good things, but as soon as you bring up something bad they’ll say “That wasn’t us!” or “That’s an isolated incident!”

  • @jak Yeah, go try to find times when real socialism actually worked in the long term, and you’ll find a list of excuses of how evil capitalists ruined perfect socialist angels and their grand ideals.

  • @ainigmaris-thales What it boils down to is the only way that any variation of socialism / communism / statism can work is riding on the back of free market capitalism. Those of us who produce things to sell on the open market supply the working capital for “social programs.” When you take away the free market element and impose pure statism, it invariably turns to shit post haste. Then the black markets form to provide what the people want, rather than what the gun-vermin “provides” for them. The chasm between the rich (i.e. government thugs and their cronies) and poor (everyone else) becomes very wide in socialistic systems. The only reason Red China is still afloat is because of their leaders’ willingness to bend what was once communism into a crony capitalist system. Otherwise, productivity pretty much comes to a halt and the system collapses on itself. You can only steal so much from the productive for so long and they stop producing. Once that happens it’s game over. The “communist” Chinese leaders know this and compensate for it by selling us shit we don’t need for money we don’t have.

  • @jak as GOJ famously said: Leftism is feminist thought writ large into politics.

  • Maybe we’re disagreeing on the definition of socialism. Last I checked, my tax dollars are used by various layers of government to fund public roads, public law enforcement, public emergency services, farm subsidies, student loans/grants, AND of course the largest publicly funded military in the world. (That’s a short list; there’s a lot more.)

    You can TRY to debate whether those things are defined as socialism. Most people do believe they are. Or instead, you can just continue moving the goalposts in order to delude yourselves into thinking that socialism is not in fact an important strand of American political life.

  • @jammyjaybird So your argument is basically that all government is socialism… and you accuse me of “moving the goalposts”? As I said before: disingenuous, as usual.

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